In an unexpected mask off “secure” email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton’s services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let’s collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here 🔐👇
Always try to provide:
-Server location (jurisdiction)
-Governance
-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency
-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)
-Pricing and links
If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.
#ProtonExodus
Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116
Edit:typo
Apple has recently declared that they’re keeping their DEI programs in contrast to other tech companies, so I suppose Lemmy crowd would approve that? Their CEO being openly gay since 2014 probably works as some sort of a guarantee, at least as long as he keeps being the CEO.
So I’ll suggest: Apple hardware + icloud. User experience (with apple hardware) 10/10. Pricing: Hardware price + monthly cost.
Monthly cost depends on geographical location and storage size, but in EU area per month:
- 50GB = 1 euro
- 200GB = 3 euros
- 2TB = 10 euros
That storage and cost can be shared with up to 5 family members.
I used this for a long time and it worked really really well. But it really does practically depend on having Apple devices, preferably on every level. I recently moved to Proton because I wanted to move to Linux, but I do miss the UX quite a lot. Icloud’s web service isn’t bad though and might work for you but probably not.
I dont know of any alternatives but I will use Zoho Mail for now with my own domain. As they are cheap and reliable. I been using them for my business and it is great.
Tuta and Mailbox.org allow custom domains.
I just wish zoho would hide my IP when I use their SMTP. I get that’s how mail headers have always worked but it blows my mind that it’s still standard practice to expose the IP of your mail server or home network.
You,…are being a spaz,…that’s all it is. An immature brat for no reason other than someone has a different view from what you believe.
Yes you are describing the intent of a boycott.
That guy prolly thinks that boycotting israel should be a felony lol
We aren’t in an age anymore where differing political opinions are harmless. People aren’t debating mere tax policies anymore. Wake the fuck up.
tell me, are your human rights personally challenged by the trump administration? mine are, and I would like to maintain what rights I have now
There is not any kind of “human right” that is unversally recognized. You can’t depend on other people to approve of your existance. If you will not defend people you despise because of their views, you have no right to demand that other people have suty to care if you live or die.
for some of us, particularly queer, black, trans, women, immigrant, and indigenous people, the stakes are higher than “i don’t personally agree with the ceo of proton.” our lives are being endangered both by the new admin’s policies as well as the emboldened cult associated with it.
this is not a “spaz” (offensive term by the way, so thanks for that) or brat move. it’s simply us doing what people always say to do: voting with our wallets. this move is bad for a lot of people. i’m thrilled for you that it’s not bad, but i ask you to see us saying it is bad not as your enemy, but as people who are vulnerable asking you to take a longer look at the bigger picture
No, you are an eternal enemy that causes open warfare, a fight to the death.
*The Right:* The market should be free to decide.
*The Market:* Decides
*The Right*: OUtrAgEOuS
That’a OP chock as a customer, bootlicker
He doesn’t like something and he is making that change. You are the one being immaut twat about it
The -40 votes on this brings the happy.
Phew! For a moment I thought you were talking about the steam compatibility thingy.
If that proton goes nazi, I am going straight to the farm
I thought they were talking about the elementary particle—I was afraid we’d have to find some other way of manifesting our physical existence.
Aww man! AGAIN?!?
i wanted to move my google stuff to Proton this year as a Backup for my self hosted stuff. Shame, seems like I need to put a little more time into managing my self hosted stuff
I was looking at Tresorit as a potential cloud option. I mean, not becausw of the Andy Yen stupid tweets debacle, its because Proton’s mobile app is utter garbage, can’t even download an entire folder when almost every other cloud provider can.
There are also Sync.com and Icecloud but I didn’t like those. Sync.com’s app looks outdated af, Icecloud makes extraordinary claims like how AES is built by the NSA and therefore is somehow “insecure” so they use a different algorithm. So Tresorit seems like the only one left that does encryption by default. (Mega’s predecessor was shut down before, so I don’t trust them for file longevity).
Anyone else got any other suggestions for cloud storage providers?
Tuta.com is similar to Proton Mail + Calendar.
-
Location: Germany
-
Governance: Private GmbH (German corporation, similar to an American LLC)
-
Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: Better than Proton IMHO. All their apps are open source and available on F-Droid. They encrypt email headers (unlike Proton, who are weaselly about this in their marketing materials).
-
User Experience: Ehhhh…6? I’m not in the best position to compare because I do not have a premium plan, so I am not able to examine features like inbox rules/filters. Much like Proton, it doesn’t support full-text email search unless you have it cache your entire mailbox locally (either via the web site or app). They do not support POP or IMAP, but do offer their own desktop and mobile apps.
-
Pricing: €3/month for 20GB, €8/month for 500GB. https://tuta.com/pricing
Yep, I’ve been using Tuta for email for years now, just the free version.
Thank you!
No IMAP is a killer
-
My personal recommendations:
https://uberspace.de
- Server location (jurisdiction): Germany
- Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: About-Page
- User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8): 6
- Pricing: Based on solidarity, but recommend minimum is 5 € per month
https://www.hostsharing.net
- Server location (jurisdiction): Germany
- Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: well, you own part of hostsharing if you use it (collective-ownership)
- User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8): 6
- Pricing: 64 € onetime payment + 10 € per month (cooperative)
Other recommendations:
- mailbox.org, systemli.org, riseup.net, posteo.de (as far as I know all of them are located in Germany)
Systemli requires an invite code last I checked? Disroot does not.
Excuse my ignorance, but why is Germany a good place for privacy vs proton’s Sweden?
And also eg, versus a non EU nation ?
TLDR: The Gestapo and Stasi
“uh uh. you aren’t doing that shit to me again”
meanwhile, on the other side of the atlantic
“spy on me daddy”
US never had fascism, so they’re experimenting and learning the hard way
oh man. we’re the og fascists. our policies inspired european fascism. we’ve done all the key components of a fascist regime before: the forced labor, the death camps, the mass surveilance, the overt militarism, the desperate need to expand and get rid of the people who were already there
LMAO! This is the type of person who would leave Steam if Gabe endorsed Trump.
using services based on the ceos political leaning instead of actual features and policies of thats service? that’s dumb, tell me when that political leaning reflects in polices of proton then we can talk
I guess the assumption is that over time they inevitably will have an effect and people want to switch before that happens.
You’re both right. I’d do the same to jump ship before the enshitification sets in. Often, I’ve seen how innocuous policy and feature changes creep in and before you know it, the switching costs are too high.
I had an app on my phone and one day they removed the export function. I only used it for backing up my data but when they raised rates and started slamming with ads, I wanted to leave but could not take my data with me. I ended to just uninstalling and starring over elsewhere.
Also, this is exactly what happened to reddit. They cut the api first so it was harder to take your communities and saved stuff with you.
why exactly is it inevitable? and why should we switch before it happens?
Recent post from the Proton Reddit account: https://archive.ph/quYyb
Seems it’s not just the CEO’s personal opinion.
The service themselves also made a Mastodon thread (which has since been deleted) supporting the Republican party
Before you decide to go back to Google or close your account, keep in mind that Proton became a non profit organization with the main mission of protecting your privacy. And as a non profit, they’re not trying to profit off of you in any way.
Going back to Google is the worst solution you can use. Remember that Google donated $1 million to Trump’s inauguration fund. Google also doesn’t care about your privacy. On the contrary, they’re selling your data and using it against you.
While the Proton CEO may be a nut case, he’s only praising the choice that Trump made as the candidate for the antitrust department. While that’s understandably stupid since I don’t believe Trump is going up stick up for the little guy now that he’s got Musk and Zuck in his pocket, at least he didn’t actively donated and enabled Trump either personally or through his platform and spread misinformation.
Think about it.
At least with proton, the fact that you’re different, that you’re 2SLGBTQ+, is safe. Or at least substantially safer than Google.
Yes, proton is about ten thousand times better than google, even with this board member’s stupid fully factored in.
OpenAI was also a non-profit until a few months ago
No, Proton actually just went from being a company to a non profit recently for the purpose of remaining a privacy focused organization whose mission won’t change.
They have doubled down officially with their official Mastodon account https://mastodon.social/@protonprivacy/113833073219145503 I therefore consider this official opinion of Proton. Focussing on one aspect and completely ignoring the bigger picture of a luming fascist period in the most militarized economy of the world is just inacceptable. Proton just could have kept their mouth shut, but they decided not to.
This is extremely disappointing. :(
Safer.
Well, they handed out activists’ metadata in the past, for the French authorities. In their position of an e2ee provider who controls both ends as a default, they are in a position where the can fuck people over. This is exactly what Snowden described as someone pointing a gun at you while saying “Relax, I am not gonna use it against you.”
So much for safety.
Ah, and my original point was: it is either safe or unsafe, the word saf_er_ means nothing during a genocide.
Worth mentioning Snowden used Lavabit. There’s a great history there.
Lavabit
Connection to Edward Snowden
Lavabit received media attention in July 2013 when it was revealed that Edward Snowden was using the Lavabit email address Ed_Snowden@lavabit.com to invite human rights lawyers and activists to a press conference during his confinement at Sheremetyevo International Airport in Moscow.[16] The day after Snowden revealed his identity, the United States federal government served a court order, dated June 10, 2013, and issued under 18 USC 2703(d), a 1994 amendment of the Stored Communications Act, asking for metadata on a customer who was unnamed. Kevin Poulsen of Wired wrote that “the timing and circumstances suggest” that Snowden was this customer.[17] In July 2013 the federal government obtained a search warrant demanding that Lavabit give away the private SSL keys to its service, affecting all Lavabit users.[18] A 2016 redaction error confirmed that Edward Snowden was the target.[2]
But what is the status now? Also, I think in the years to come the jurisdiction will also play a role. If the service is in the soil of a country that can subpoeana the encryption keys, then nobody is really safe.
Contents of email are safe.
But assume IPs are compromised.
IIRC, this was because the user in question had set a recovery email for their account, which Proton either volunteered or was forced to give to the authorities. Definitely crappy behavior on Proton’s part. Don’t set a recovery email!
Why are there so many responses like this, saying not to go back to Google? The OP didn’t even mention Google as an option they were considering. I’ve seen zero discussion in any of the other posts around the fediverse where people have expressed any desire to use Google because of this. Why would anyone think that users who had already moved to Proton would find Google acceptable as an alternative right now?
This just feels like you’re trying to discourage actual conversation about alternatives by acting like the only options are Proton or Google, so we all ought to shut up and sit down.
Also, if you think merely becoming a non-profit means a corporation can never exploit people and isn’t interested in making money off of it’s customers, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
Because I looked at the discussion threads for this post and I saw a few early comments where people mentioned they would go back or stick with Google.
I’m not trying to shut down or discourage any discussion. Just pointing out to the people who said they’d go back that it’s not the best solution.
Lol dont be a child
Misinformation. OP is advocating that you shoot yourself in the foot.
The CEO said something silly on Twitter which revealed either that (a) he shares an exceedingly banal opinion with literally half of America or (b) he’s not above a bit of preemptive sycophancy to advance his (positive) anti-trust agenda.
There’s nothing particularly scandalous in the offending tweet:
- Implying that the Democrats are now “the party of big business” is arguably true (and very boring)
- Implying that the Republicans now “stand for the little guys” is dumb but also arguably true, unfortunately - the working classes swung to Trump in the recent election while the Democrats are fast becoming a party of high-earning elites (which is why they lost)
- Saying that the antitrust actions began under Trump I is, well, true
Proton is not owned Zuck-like by its CEO. It’s controlled by a foundation with other stakeholders on the board, including the inventor of the Web himself. In its niche it is still by far the best option. Ditching it for a nebulous non-existent alternative because the CEO expressed a dumb and extremely commonplace opinion is just silly and self-defeating.
I find it disappointing that people interested in privacy would have such little respect for a private individual’s right to have their own thoughts.
Well said, my friend.
I largely agree with what you’re saying, except the official Proton Mastadon account doubled down on that personal opinion. That seems pretty clear that it’s endorsed not just by that one individual on the board.
Do you have a link to that doubling down post? I checked their account and didn’t see anything that resembled this.
You have to look at their comments/replies or whatever. Someone above already posted the link.
Sorry, their comment hadn’t been posted when i loaded the thread. Much obliged.
No worries!
Link to Mastodon thread: https://mastodon.social/@protonprivacy/113833073219145503
Just puked a little after reading that.
Here’s what I don’t get: if the leadership at Proton believes this shit, why share it on social media at all? It clearly isn’t going to make anyone in the left happy. Are they trying to capture porn-loving MAGA?
Appeasement to the fascists so they don’t get banned like they did to tiktok (I assume)
Archives in case they delete it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20250115165213/https://mastodon.social/@protonprivacy/113833073219145503
Text copy of their post:
Corporate capture of Dems is real. In 2022, we campaigned extensively in the US for anti-trust legislation.
Two bills were ready, with bipartisan support. Chuck Schumer (who coincidently has two daughters working as big tech lobbyists) refused to bring the bills for a vote.
At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance.
By working on the front lines of many policy issues, we have seen the shift between Dems and Republicans over the past decade first hand.
Dems had a choice between the progressive wing (Bernie Sanders, etc), versus corporate Dems, but in the end money won and constituents lost.
Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.
Looks like backing up the post was a good call.
This doesn’t seem bad? Its true dems embraced the corporate side. The republicans suck and are only going after tech until tech bows down to them (like zuck has been doing) but the post isn’t really outrageous or worse than the first tweet
Right? So much of this seems like people not able to tell if actions are good or bad independent of who takes the action. There’s no way their team could ever do anything bad, and anything done by the other team is automatically bad.
God forbid you try to reinforce a rare good behavior from someone who’s also done a lot of horrendous things.
This doesn’t seem bad? Its true dems embraced the corporate side.
Are you trying to argue that R is less entrenched with rich oligarchs and corporate money than the Dems? Because I musk object if so.
No I’m saying Dems moved to the right and aren’t representing the people who historically have voted for them because they’re chasing the corporate donors and right wingers
Republicans have always been worst and still are.
No I’m saying Dems moved to the right and aren’t representing the people who historically have voted for them because they’re chasing the corporate donors and right wingers
Well on this specific detail we agree entirely!
Can you screenshot it? The link doesn’t load
Significant if true. But still. Proton has a great product and a lot of stored-up goodwill. I think the reasonable thing to do here is to wait and see, and to judge them on actions before words.
I’m not jumping ship yet and am waiting to see what, if anything, happens from here. Maybe it comes out that the same person has access to that official Mastadon account and echoed their opinion there… and maybe it comes out that his comments/actions are disavowed by the rest of the organization.
I’ll wait and see. But it’s not a great start.
Fair enough. But this whole drama is still completely substance-free. The air of US-style thought-policing bothers me.
As a non-American I don’t normally care about US politics or what “literally half of America” think but I am concerned with far-right politics spilling over in to my country. So I would naturally want to resist organisations aligning themselves with those politics, whether they are scandalous to Americans or not.
OP is responding to a public post and rationalizing why it’s a red line for them. How is that “disinformation”?
Implying that the Republicans now “stand for the little guys” is dumb but also arguably true
No, no it isn’t arguably true. It’s just flat out incorrect. 100% of people could vote for him or others like him out of fear of disappearing in the night if they don’t. That doesn’t make him or the party “for the little guy”.
It doesn’t matter that 51% of the country votes for the Republicans. The party has consistently shit all over “the little guy” and made him eat it for over 40 years, telling him he’s eating shit and then said only the party can fix it.
All the while the party’s been giving tax money to their friends and saying “don’t worry, we’re here now. you can feed him as much shit as you want. we’ll find someone cleaning up shit and make the “little guy” think that person was making it instead. that way when you get caught doing it no one will believe it”
-
It isn’t misinformation.
-
Someone like this board member being a traitor to his species isn’t covered by “opinion”. No normalizing nazis. It’s such a low bar. He couldn’t clear it.
-
He blasted his treachery over the public airwaves. His privacy isn’t being violated.
This whole comment feels like an exercise in using all the best words to miss the point. We know, as does this probably-lying board member, that Republicans are only going to go more authoritarian, and the only reason they would pretend to care about big tech abuses is to grab the steering wheel from them to commit far worse abuses. No company that gets into bed with traitors is going to become the new center of my digital life.
Tuta for email, syncthing for photos bc I’m not self-hosting, mullvad for VPN.
Sorry but I won’t participate in this juvenile trivializing of the word “Nazi”. Yes, I know that’s become almost a meaningless slur at this point, but personally I just will not take seriously anybody who throws it around like this. Perhaps because I’m European. Perhaps because I studied history. It’s not serious.
It’s because you’re a centrist.
You say it like it’s an insult! Actually I usually vote green. And in Europe the greens are really greens, rather than just spoilers who help Bushes and Trumps into power.
I didn’t intend it to be directly insulting, but it seems like you’re well aware how lemmy leans already and you’re willing to double down on centrist stalling points anyway. With no realistic middle choices available, and none cropping up, Americans are a little more than a little tired of centrist talking points.
Or because the left-right axis makes no sense
Mate they’re mainstreaming fascist rhetoric. Over 60% of Republicans now believe in the Great Replacement theory aka White Genocide, which used to be a fringe conspiracy theory just a decade ago.
I encourage you to not get hung up on symbolism and instead look to ideology and rhetoric.
Leaving aside the absurd and juvenile “Nazi” slur (“fascist” is less of a stretch), I disagree with your analysis. I think it’s exactly the opposite. I think it’s because mainstream politicians have refused to address the reasonable aspects of people’s concerns (about immigration, in particular), and because progressive activists have gone off the leash in their wild accusations of racism at the slightest contradiction of their opinions, that we’ve ended up in this situation of the far right getting into power all over the place.
Once again: I do not vote for these parties. Anyway, we are now completely offtopic so let’s leave it there.
So yes they’re fascist, but the progressives complained too much about racism, and therefore it’s fine to support the fascists?
Mate. IDK what to tell you but your political ideology is privileged garbage. You’re more scared of being called racist than of fascism. The kind of “yes ethnic cleansing but please no mean language” attitude. Please get a political education and your priorities straight.
With your insults and condescension, you’re just proving my point.
Yeah I never doubted you’d have a reason to dismiss being called out like that. Getting your feelings hurt invalidates everything else. I feel like I’m talking to myself from 10 years ago.
You don’t have to take it from me. If you’re a student of history, maybe start with Umberto Eco. He knew a thing or two about fascism, I’ve heard.
The biggest mistake we can make is to assume it can’t happen again.
ah, we‘re getting somewhere. You have doubts about something, therefore the opposite must be right. Makes sense that you said the Republican party is the party for the little guy now.
Traitor to his species
??? Lol? Imagine having an opinion in 2025
You have to self host if you use synching
They probably mean forwardable ports, i.e. have isp-related problems with hosting servers.
Syncthing doesn’t need you to host a server, it can hole-punch right through the worst cgnats.Might also be intermittent syncing only when ops machine is running.
-
Did he defend the whole party? I thought he just said they picked someone who is going to so one good thing
Which is true.
OP is peddling misinformation because it’s not true that “Proton took the stance” of anything.
Except Proton’s official Mastodon account made another post afterwords doubling down on the CEO’s comments. They ended up taking down the post due to getting a ton of backlash
Their official reddit account also tripled down by saying “here is our official response” (and then quoting the Mastodon post). So they’ve explicitly made it the company’s view - not just the CEO’s view.
Implying that the Republicans now “stand for the little guys”
How is it true exactly? Republicans do not care about the little guys in any way lol
Implying that the Democrats are now “the party of big business” is arguably true (and very boring)
While true in some scenarios, in anti-trust Lina khan’s ftc has done significantly more than trump ever did. Biden keeping her over the protest of countless business execs and daily articles in the wall street journal on how she’s ruining America shows some commitment to prosecuting big tech.
Meanwhile, trump’s anti-trust moves were mostly based off petty issues he had with the ceos or the platforms having a “liberal bias”. Now that every big tech ceo has fallen in line and given him $1 million for his inauguration I doubt we’ll see much movement on that front.
Completely agree on all that.
YOU POSTED the comment they are rebutting. And your reply to the rebuttal of your own comment is “completely agree?”
From what I remember pre-election news was saying wealthy dems/dem donors wanted Biden (and Kamala in some report I saw) gone primarily because they didn’t like what Lina Khan was doing. There were also questions about whether Kamala would continue to support Lina Khan after receiving donations from wealthy donors. JD Vance praised her work and it sounds like the Trump nomination is going to continue similarly.
I don’t like Trump at all and I know how petty and sycophantic he can be, but this may end up being one case where I end up preferring the result on this one specific issue over what we may have had if the dems had won without Kamala or if she flipped and agreed to drop Khan. I won’t really know how I feel about this selection until I see the result.
(Quick search turned these examples up that I’ve only skimmed, but I need to log off: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/24/kamala-harris-lina-khan-00185345 https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/kamala-harris-rich-donors-lina-khan/)
There’s no fucking way they let her go on.
I’m ready to eat my words, but I expect her to disappear, or be limited to companies which did not fall in line to Musk/Trump.
The entire shtick of the next admin is deregulation, antitrust will not be welcome.
I find it disappointing that people interested in privacy would have such little respect for a private individual’s right to have their own thoughts.
Ding ding ding.
It seems the vast majority of people do NOT want to allow speech they don’t like, no matter the consequences. That requires too much forward thinking. Excuse me while I watch history repeat itself…
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. Nobody here is silencing speech, we are just exercising our right to free association by not doing business with Nazi sympathizers.
I don’t wanna give money to people who would hate me for who I am
Then you don’t really like free speech!
Ok bud. I’m not gonna weigh in with my actual opinion on the matter being discussed, I just wanted to point out that you’ve taken a few too many steps with that assumption lol
Not who you replied to, but how so?
I don’t know anything about you, but for the sake of argument, imagine you’re part of a marginalized group. Now, imagine that you use a product. The owner of said product has openly stated that they hate your very existence because you’re part of that marginalized group. You have decided that this is a good reason to stop giving them your money.
When does free speech come into this? How does one person’s money/profit affect another’s right to speak? It doesn’t. Choosing where you spend your money is you utilizing your freedom to express yourself via your wallet, just the same as they chose to express themself via words. Both the objector and the CEO are saying “I disagree with your views on the world and as such no longer desire your business”. Well, maybe the CEO still wants your business.
owner of said product has openly stated that they hate your very existence
Of all the things that didn’t happen, this didn’t happen the most.
Sure, they just said they strongly support someone who has openly said that. Totally not the same thing
Oh I want him to be allowed to speak his mind. I just don’t want to give a Trumpet any money, and especially not after their annoucement of a crypto wallet and ventures into AI crap.
Free speech doesn’t mean I should spend my money there.
Yes I tend to share your analysis.
The privacy community is always told to verify, not trust. The board of Proton have decided to publicly state something that leads a lot of people to be unable to trust them - namely supporting the choices of an extreme right wing leader who has repeatedly demonstrated the foolishness of trusting anything he says or does.
This CEO is totally free to have their own thoughts but its verging on the ridiculous to think that other people aren’t going to have a negative reaction to them and seek alternatives. Its next to impossible to trust a company that express approval of Trump decisions because its impossible to trust Trump. And Proton going out of their way to publicly state their approval when they are not even a US org and would’ve lost nothing by simply not saying anything suggests a board that was keen to publicly express support for Trump. It inevitably makes people who are already on the receiving end of Trumpian hate legislation, or who soon will be, wonder what else Proton might be willing to do for Trump in the future.
Not American, but there is this regarding the third point: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/comment/m7b1wib/
Any thoughts here?
To me this whole demonizing proton ceo thing seems a bit overblown. Sucking up is actually pathetic and funny
If you’ve got an argument, make it.
Well the reddit comment says completely opposite of what you said - that trump didn’t really increase / start with antitrust, but rather did the opposite.
Well it’s either true or it’s not. Did you bother looking it up to check?
Nailed it, Americans get so offended and divided on these issues that they just throw reason and logic out the window
You are extremely ignorant. We have people marching through the streets with police protection chanting ‘Jews will not replace us".
That sounds like throwing reason and logic out the window, what’s the context?
“People are being openly hateful to groups of people for no reason.”
“Umm context???”
Imagine getting offended by someone asking for more details
I tend to agree. Don’t blow this out of proportion. If you dig deep enough, you will not like the CEO of ANY company… so don’t let some comments from the CEO of Proton get you worked up.
I love how you’re claiming misinformation while posting misinformation. It’s not the CEO, it’s a board member. That said, the company also officially posted these ideas on their Bluesky account.
This isn’t a “CEO” expressing a belief, it’s the board, and now the official company line.
I’m not disagreeing with their post particularly on corporate dems, but this is a company and not a persons sole belief.
Also, if dems are the party of big business then why are all these big businesses donating to Trump? Does that just mean republicans are the party of even bigger business?
This is all over the place.
My comment concerns the post above. OP cites a tweet and states a falsehood about it. No, “Proton” did not “take the stance” of anything in that tweet. Yes, Andy Yen is the CEO. Yes, that tweet is in his name and not in the name of Proton. I was not responding to other things that you’ve seen elsewhere.
Now, as for those other things elsewhere, I stick by the substance of my point. Sure, it’s more of a problem that dumb things are being said in the name of Proton rather than just it’s CEO. But look at the detail of those things. There is nothing scandalous. People are getting their underwear in a twist about extremely common opinions being expressed on Twitter. Personally I don’t care if a CEO voted a different way to me, or even if a whole board did. This should not have any bearing on Proton’s product or what makes it better than others. This is just another typically American culture-war drama. It’s boring.
correct
Personally I don’t care if a CEO voted a different way to me, or even if a whole board did. This should not have any bearing on Proton’s product or what makes it better than others.
I won’t have a friend who supports Trump, because to do so is to support a regressive, bigoted, jackbooted view of the world and how things should be done. I don’t speak to my Trump supporting family members except when family situations force us to.
WHY ON EARTH would I trust my privacy to a company whose entire board supports that view, much less their CEO?
This is all over the place.
If you click the link in this post it takes you to a mastodon comment from the official Proton account stating exactly the same beliefs as this board member. If that isn’t in the name of Proton what is?
People ARE looking at the details of this. If this company starts cozying up to an alt-right “dictator for a day” government then when/where does this stop? There’s nuance beyond just Proton and Andy said something scandalous here. It’s layers of political issues that spell a privacy focused company having an inability to actually keep the government out of my shit.
Culture war would be if they took a stance on DEI. This is political and has actual consequences.
Why are you trying to defend a fucking corporation? When has a company ever not become evil as they look to grow? It’s just the nature of the beast. The people here, and the OP specifically, have called out Proton is over for them. They’re not saying you should do the same. Just that they’re going to take a step back and others expressing they’ll join.
Their bullet points are spin-doctoring.
Also the comment got a few dozen upvotes almost immediately. Suspicious.
I was thinking the same thing. In all the threads about it. It just seemed oddly suspicious and not typical of what the digital privacy community has typically believed… I mean, I’m also not going to homogenize a community like that though and Proton has been a mainstay.
Both parties are the big business parties. Big business is “donating” (bribing) Trump now like all big businesses have done to both parties since citizens united passed.
Ive been using proton for a little more than a year now and I think that the service is one of the best out there. That, and their privacy guides in their blog are great as well. I think abandoning ship this early isn’t really a need. I’ve abondonded things like Plex for jellyfin due to Plex starting to feel very commerical. As others have pointed out, the governing of the company may keep one individuals views from interfering with the products. With that said, if your beliefs swing opposite, i see how it can leave a bad taste and make it worth keeping an eye on the direction of the company.
Wow!
Of all companies, this is one I didn’t expect.
Damn.
the good news is this is a lesson to never trust any entity whose role in the world is to accumulate capital
What’s insane is that didn’t Proton just recently announce they were converting to a non-profit?
Yes, they did: https://proton.me/blog/proton-non-profit-foundation
Yea, and Andy Yen is only one of five members on the board of the Non-Profit organization, so you’ll just have to gamble that everyone else isn’t this weird (if you still want to continue using Proton services, that is, your choice 🤷♂️).
There is absolutely no way to verify any of Proton’s privacy claims. Why should I trust one for profit company over another?
... ... ....,, .
Why would this be unexpected?
Proton already handed over the IP of a climate protester to authorities several years ago, while boasting that they had a no log policy.
https://therecord.media/protonmail-forced-to-collect-an-activists-ip-address-in-police-investigation
Every time, in the past few years, that I bring this up, everyone just acts like I’m setting an impossible standard and no alternative exists.
Proton has been shady for years.
From reading that article it looks like they were only using and able to log the IP address when the person logged in to their protonmail account specifically - not VPN.
They even state that VPNs can not be forced to log under the same legal order and are treated differently so in this case it seems the activists were not using the VPN while accessing their emails.
Although I dont agree with even the logging of the email IP, it appears like the user shot themselves in the foot like that other case where someone used their real name in the username and that obviosly has to be logged in some way.
I didn’t know about this. I haven’t followed Proton closely for a while, but this…wow. Kinda lousy.
I wish I had heard of this earlier, that combined with these new political statements is enough for me to find something else.
Stop switching to every new “cool” and “encrypted” service every time the previous one disappointed you a little bit. This is not helpful neither for your time, nor for privacy community overall. We should lean on most developed and best platforms we have right now (Proton, Signal etc.) and get everyone to switch. Unless we know we have market dominance, dispersing our efforts is futile.
And yep, answering your question, Tuta Mail is fine
