If anyone has the git repo downloaded, they have a copy of it (from when they last pulled)
Archive org has it
I’ve seen a few floating around.
People think emulator protections in the law are stronger than they really are. Sony vs Connectix made emulation legal, but it wasn’t heard by the supreme court. PS1 games weren’t encrypted and relied on other methods like disc wobble to prevent piracy…so without proactively violating any measures you could just not include that check in your competing emulator and play retail discs without breaking any laws.
In steps the DMCA anti-circumvention laws for bypassing video game / console encryption measures, which is an even bigger untested minefield without precedent in favor of emulation. And since games are default encrypted on new consoles and arguably not subject to exemption (at least while still supported) it really might be a disaster to fight it.
Nintendo is a dick but it’s not in our interest or theirs to really push the boundary on the status quo. The get to slap suit whatever they want taken down, we get to play the emulation hydra game where it’s still legally grey.
Personally I don’t give a flying Fuck what the law says, breaking copyright is the only thing preventing the world from being more of a dystopian nightmare with subscription mice and trains that break down if you take them to a mechanic and I can’t wait for someone in china or India to take the Open source code and make a better emulator.
I care what the law says if it’s wrong.
I don’t much care of what is said, when it is just. I’m more concerned with those who claim to know the difference
If they had an actual plan or history of preserving games I’d not care about emulator development. But with the industry track record being so poor we need emulators if for nothing else for preservation.
So much culturally interesting data has already been lost to time which I bet future historians would absolutely love to have access to. The internet archive is missing much of the early internet, while old iPhone and Android apps are largely unable to be run even if you have the APK/IPA required,
Is there still an alternative left for the switch?
Both ryujinx and yuzu are open source, there are loads of forks
Suyu is a fork of Yuzu: https://suyu.dev/
were they able to do some work on emulation already?
Suyu was mismanaged and died very quickly. Sudachi was excellent and has an Android build but the dev is taking a break.
Wow… I had a look at the commit history and it doesn’t seem like any actual development is taking place. Just changes and removal of text here and there.
Why put all this energy in to making a website and host a fork when you don’t do anything with it?
5 minutes of internet fame.
A major rewrite is pending. He stated this on his Twitter I think.
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And now I regret not copying their repo to our Forgejo instance.
Obligatory fuck Nintendo, but I also blame the selfish dumbfucks who keep posting videos of themselves playing unreleased games on YouTube and Reddit. If you want nice things contingent on having software which exists in a legal gray area, don’t openly poke the litigious hornets’ nest.
That’s inevitable though, blame them all you want those people will always exist
Now and then I bought Nintendo games for my nephew. This stopped right now.
Get him a MIG!
the plane?
The Flashcart. But I’ll take the plane!
I mean. I understand the sentiment but I don’t think your nephew will understand 😅 you should keep buying games for your nephew bro. I’ll stop buying games in his place
I’m sure there’s plenty of other things they’d appreciate too. Maybe instead they could help them move over to PC even.
Teach your nephew about the evilness of Nintendo and why he shouldn’t support them anymore.
I know it’s not happening, but I’d love it if Nintendo went the way of Sega, and just made games. They’ve always been hit and miss with their consoles anyway, it’s the games people love. Just fuck it, start releasing games for multiple platforms and focus on what you’re actually fucking good. Pipe dream, I know
I imagine Nintendo could make a tonne selling Zelda games for PC for 1.5x what they normally charge, simply for performance and controller compatibility.
I don’t think a lot of people would buy e.g. BotW for 100 bucks.
Don’t switch games already cost more than PC games, I kinda doubt people would be willing to pay even more.
Depends on your country but switch games range 50-70 € and pc games are more like 10-100€ but with ones comparable to Switch games mostly 30-60€. So yes mostly, but they’re not that far off that they would definitely do poorly.
Right?
If they hate emulators so much, why aren’t they selling native x86 versions?
"Hey we released this new game buuuuut you’re going to need to purchase an entire separate computer system we call a ‘console’ because we refuse to compile the game binary for PC OSes, nor provide the source for you to do so yourself”
I interpret distributors and publishers treating me as a second (or third) class citizen as carte blanche to acquire your content and make the necessary changes to make it work on my environment of choice.
they could even sell a VM image as they’ve proven it still runs better virtualised on other machines than it does native on theirs
Nintendo DS and Switch are the second and third most sold consoles ever, respectively. Gameboy and GB Colour comes in fourth of you count them together. Wii is sixth or seventh depending on if you group the above.
I think people like their consoles.
They’ve had some flops…Wii U, DSi, Virtualboy…but they ain’t no game.com. Way more hits than misses in the console realm.
And then nobody ever made another emulator for Nintendo products again and this definitely does not foreshadow an endless game of whack-a-mole powered by spite.
Surely not.
I’m a bit salty this was apparently announced through Discord. Was it even posted anywhere else?
The future of social media is fragmented siloes, I guess.
Yeah, this is a big part of why I stopped using discord recently. Not yet sure of any alternatives but leaving is step one.
Matrix.
And… Lemmy.
It doesn’t matter though, the problem is the critical mass is migrating to Discord and shunting everything out of view. Honestly that’s much worse than being on Reddit, even now.
Matrix does not have seamless desktop sharing or voice chat, and has a drastically higher executive cost. It also does not solve the information silo issue.
The fediverse as a whole is promising but likely needs to mature a bit longer. Theres a lot of potential issues that have yet to be worked through.
Yeah… even worse, it appears the admin didn’t even announce it, this is just one of the developers clarifying what the admin probably did.
As someone who uses Ryujinx, I literally spent the afternoon curious about an error I was getting while updating about the build server being down “probably because it’s building a new version, check back in a few minutes”, only to find a Twitter screenshot of this linked in slack that evening.
Twitter screenshot of this linked in slack that evening.
The modern internet in a nutshell, lol.
Yeah, why don’t they send an owl to each interested party?
Some of us like to be contacted via cute and fluffy snow owls…
You are a wizard Joe!..
…but an average one.
I will never not be pissed off that the overwhelming majority of communities that made the internet vibrant especially when nerding out about niche stuff just happily moved to discord and foreclosed their futures.
Everytime I get down on the fediverse I think about what discord did to online communities I loved and I get fired up again.
I think eventually if a federated system (or particular server) gets too popular they will just defederate from everyone else and perpetuate the same problem all over again
I wouldn’t have an issue with many different communications platforms if they didn’t all require an account (also Discord not being indexable sucks).
Discord is even worse, as you need to find an invite to a specific Discord, and sometimes go through a lengthy sign up process for each Discord.
Some won’t let you sign up without a phone #.
Never give Nintendo money.
I think anyone still in the scene will want to lay low for a while and work in the shadows. Only releasing after a few years.
I hope they dont go for dolphin or cemu claiming that certain games are in their e-shop for the switch 2 release.
Either way I think we should start backing up emulators and their source and require files regularly as a fallback.
I hope they dont go for dolphin or cemu claiming that certain games are in their e-shop for the switch 2 release.
That’s exactly what I’m afraid of
I mean, all of these emulators are already very well archived and available from several sources, not to mention downloaded to the devices of millions of people. I highly doubt we would be in danger of losing any of them even if Nintendo were to sue literally all of them overnight. Well, except for things like Github issues and pull requests, nobody bothers to archive those unfortunately.
But yeah, IMO the danger is moreso that the attacks are leading to a massive chilling effect and loss of developer talent in the emulation community.
The last version released is 1.1.1403. Easy to find with a google search.
I’ve already found two repos that successfully copied everything over before the main repo disappeared. I even built a working copy of Ryujinx from one of them. I’d probably find several more easily if I tried hard enough.
Still on Flathub though.
Yuzu was like that soon after being taken down. I assume Flathub has some sort of delay.
What do they think they achieve with this?
@nichtburningturtle @mr_MADAFAKA not sure, there’s already like 500 forks up, may the one with the coolest name win.
it’s in the repo for basically any linux distribution too so the source and executables are mirrored on literally thousands of servers and easily downloadable, so absolute worst case scenario it’s version froze at 1.1.1388 for the time being.
all that happened to yuzu is a slight name change so i don’t expect much more here.
all that happened to yuzu is a slight name change so i don’t expect much more here.
All of the commits for Suyu, the most active yuzu “fork” this year is like 20 different readme/URL changes, lol. Nintendo 100% succeeded in killing it.
@nichtburningturtle @mr_MADAFAKA confirmed, the full git history up to yesterday is preserved and already mirrored all over, so it’s all good 👍
Forcing people to purchase the Switch 2 for their handheld needs, obviously </sarcasm>
What kinda question is that? Mobbing the developers out of switch emulation.
The only two options where you and ryujinx and they are both taken out, all the forks are jokes because the developers that had real abilities worked on the main projects.
I will always say this in these “Nintendo shuts down beloved fan project” threads: why don’t the people working on these projects operate anonymously and release via torrent? I feel like I’ve been reading the same story for 20 years. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone at this point that Nintendo will come after you.
This is the first time they’ve been suing emulator developers.
Yeah! And they’ve been so cool and supportive of the gaming community thus far, <3 nintendo https://www.thegamer.com/a-snapshot-of-nintendos-convoluted-legal-history/
Nintendo didn’t put legal pressure on emulator devs for decades at this point, which made devs less cautious about preserving their pseudonymity.
Now it’s too late and they can’t stop Nintendo from finding out who they are and which mistakes they did at some point over the years.
Maybe a new generation of emulator developers will be more protective of their identity, by using hosting providers like Njalla or privacy networks like i2p. The latter would limit access (as it requires i2p), which isn’t desirable for most users.
While that’s true, it’s incredibly reductive to a baseline of “nintendo should win because they are powerful and others aren’t”
How many of these emulators were shut down through legal action or threat of legal action? I mean, the list goes on and on
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_emulators https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_2_emulators https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_3_emulators https://www.ppsspp.org/ https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PlayStation_Vita_emulators https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Xbox_emulators https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Xbox_360_emulators
Oh right, this happened https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment,_Inc._v._Connectix_Corp.
Nintendo is using every action possible to stop switch emulation, because, unlike other publishers, they don’t produce any advanced or specific hardware anymore, and they purely survive through their IP.
Because emulation is legal. It shouldn’t have to be hidden. This was taken through the courts in 2001 with the Sony vs Bleem lawsuit.
What appears to be happening is Nintendo is abusing its power and money to make threats of legal action that these groups just can’t afford to fight, even though they haven’t done anything illegal. It should be coming as a surprise that Nintendo is coming for them, because this is completely legal, and not some fan game using Nintendo IP (which is what they normally shut down).
This is like if a pedestrian gets struck by a car while on a crosswalk. Yeah, they were allowed to be there… but they should have looked both ways before crossing the street.
This is a case of people being idealistic rather than practical.
ITT: people not understanding the difference between BLAME and OUTCOME and downvoting you because of it. Incidentally, I also read a thread earlier today that talked about declining literacy in adults…
Incidentally, this is a perfect example, because the automotive industry ran a series of ad campaigns to change public sentiment after cars got more common and children and elderly citizens started dying in the streets.
Nintendo is working equally hard to change public sentiment against the innocent.
Source: https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history
You’re talking about blame assignment, but I am instead referring to the fact that in both the Nintendo and the automotive example that somebody got smacked because they weren’t careful enough.
Somebody got smacked because they were told that this was a safe area to be in. Then they get hit, and are blamed for not being careful enough in the area they were told was safe to be in.
Like I said above, everyone coming through here is so obsessed with talking about blame and fault. That’s not what I’m talking about at all. I’m saying that if Ryujinx wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have done things differently.
See, no mention of blame at all. How else do I need to spell things out for the extremely autistic and pedantic crowd here?
if Ryujinx wanted to avoid this outcome, they should have done things differently
How do you not read this as blame? Or, is this not the same as “they had it coming, wouldn’t have happened if they’d been dressed in armour or hadn’t gone down that street alone” which is often known as victim blaming.
Oh, there’s a wiki article on that. It has a section on the thing you’re arguing about, with cars and pedestrians Neat. Maybe this is why people are talking about it.
Being right and being suddenly under a car are not mutually exclusive.
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Legal in the US. I think this guy is in Brazil.
Is nintendo the source of the “come to brazil” meme? 🤔
Emulation might be legal, but it’s software specifically designed to run illegal copies of the games.
I dislike Nintendo, but I can’t blame them for taking down that kind of software development. They’re still selling many of their old games through their own store for their own emulators. They’re perhaps charging way too much for it and/or lock it behind a subscription wall, even if you ever bought the original copies. Absolute garbage business practice, but from the corporate point of view I can see why they go after emulators. Especially since it’s easier to take those down than trying to go after all digital emulator copies of the games (if not impossible).
They’re probably gonna try and set an example to scare off others trying to make new emulators too.
What do you think emulation is?
Copying your own copy of a game and using tools for compatibility is what we’re talking about, is protected, and already has the case law demonstrating so.
That may be the main reason why people use or even create emulators, but there are still legitimate uses for emulators. It’s like banning couples from riding the same motorcycle because two people on a bike is usually a robbery.
Nice metaphor, is it your original?
It is made for various things like game development. When my company was working on remastering a GameCube game, Nintendo themselves handed us a devkit, and we used the dolphin emulator to play the original game and compare gameplay and performance.
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Is it illegal to copy your own Nintendo games?
As shitty as it is, yes.
It is not illegal to make backup copies for yourself of games you have purchased and own.
To be fair, it’s software specifically designed to run digital backups of what’s supposed to be personally owned media. It just so happens that it’s very easy to obtain a copy otherwise, but there’s nothing inherently illegal about it or the games.
Strong arming independent projects, and individual developers especially, that are very careful to not endorse that, effectively holding them accountable for others, is morally questionable at best.
From a theoretical point of view, emulators of modern consoles may actually be illegal. Under the DMCA, emulation for preservation is protected as a periodically-renewed exemption list defined by the library of congress. But, (paraphrasing) “creating or distributing any hardware or software device—or component of such—designed to circumvent DRM technology” is still illegal irrespective of any exemptions. A reasonable (and bullshit) interpretation of that means that any emulator which is capable of bypassing any DRM features (such as decrypting ROM using user-provided keys) is a violation under the act.
I say theoretical because it hasn’t ever actually been tested in a court. Nintendo v. Tropic Haze LLC nearly gave us the answer, but the latter chose to settle instead.
I can’t blame them for taking down that kind of software development.
Your not being able to blame them is completely irrelevant. Nintendo can not like stuff all it wants. The question is if it is LEGAL. If it is, and it is, your defense of their actions is a defense of the argument that they should be above the law because they don’t like something, and that’s an absolutely TERRIBLE position to take. You don’t need to white knight for Nintendo. They have more money than God and taking up their fights for them against your own rights as a consumer is so far beyond Stockholm Syndrome that I don’t think we even have a word for it yet.
Feel like you failed to read and grasp what I said.
Never said I agreed with what they’re doing, I am not white knighting them. I frankly don’t give a shit what Nintendo does and doesn’t and what they’ll lose over it.
I was just stating an observation from a business point of view.
It’s also legal to own guns in some countries, doesn’t make it legal to use it to just shoot at anything, and it’s even more ridiculous to assume that everyone buying/owning guns has good intentions. There are many countries where owning a gun isn’t legal, as well as making copies of products you’ve bought, even for personal backup.
And to believe that people use emulation exclusively for their own backups is insanely naive.
If guns are sold legally, it means that there is the assumption that everyone buying them has good intentions.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe I didn’t grasp what you said, but reading your reply it seems like I grasped it fine.
Here’s the thing. People use emulators for piracy. That is also COMPLETELY and totally irrelevant to the discussion. The right to developing emulators is well-established, and game preservation isn’t even the most important consequence. The right to developing emulators is what allows virtualization that forms the backbone of server architecture, as well as running legacy code from old architectures on modern hardware, alleviating the need for thousands of man hours in rewriting tried and tested code. 20 years in the future, when the IoTs stupidity litters millions of homes with inaccessible, useless plastic garbage, emulation of no longer supported control units will be a panacea.
Nintendo is totally free to not like the law, but it is the law, and this pressure to shut down these projects is a flagrant violation of the developers’ legal rights, which regardless of the morality of piracy is a disgusting flouting of the legal system.
People use guns to murder, yes. But whether you or I think it’s correct or not, the law does not hold gun makers liable for the things their users do with them. We can’t just DECIDE that there are exceptions to the law and begin prosecuting or acting as if they are liable. That requires either a new law or an interpretation by a court to set a precedent - not lawyers sending a cease and desist to Smith & Wesson. That is a slippery slope to an absolutely nightmarish dystopia.
There is no justifying this in a “Well, I can see why they did it…” sense any more than in a murder case. The law is clear. The established rights of the developers are clear. The right to make a Switch emulator is NOT Nintendo’s right to give or deny like a trademark dispute or the ability to make a fan game. They don’t GET a say. The right to make an emulator is explicitly YOURS by LAW. And a giant corporation has taken their money and used it to violate established rights with threat of bankruptcy in violation of that established law. If you believe in the rule of law, no matter what you think of piracy, that should be utterly haunting.
The Sony verdict didn’t establish emulation as legal
At most you find that it established using mods/creating derivatives is illegal
And on the low end it found that using pictures from competitors in advertising as comparison isn’t illegal
And because these are never finished projects. People can rant and rave about cloning the git all day, but without active, knowledgeable developers with the knowledge of the original dev team, these projects are dead. It’s not about using the emulators as they exist today… it’s about continuing to keep them working going forward. Anything that releases in the last year or two of the Switch’s life is now at risk of being lost forever into Nintendo’s archives.
Anything that releases in the last year or two of the Switch’s life is now at risk of being lost forever into Nintendo’s archives.
Somebody will archive it, for two reasons: 1) data hoarders and 2) hacked Switches.
Sure, it will be as playable as it is right now, right as the project shuts down. Any updates or improvements? Any new games? Only if someone else takes up the mantle and risks having world police nintendo suing them
I assume emulator development will continue eventually. Who knows when that will be, though.
The thing that sucks is that I’m in the middle of a couple of games, so if something upgrades and Ryujinx isn’t compatible, I’m hosed.
