- cross-posted to:
- steamdeck@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- steamdeck@sopuli.xyz
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Microsoft has been steadily moving away from backwards compatibility and trying to be a one-stop shop for everything. They just want Windows to be focused on data collection and spying at this point. And your gaming data isn’t as valuable as you might think.
If they don’t have one for it already, they’ll just want to make a compatible Xbox app to run on Linux. If Linux can serve the gaming folks, and they get their data with an Xbox sign-in, it’s way less work and cost for them to keep Windows running the games well. I doubt they feel threatened at all.
I’m waiting for a MS vs Steam lawsuit where MS tries to sue over the usage of the Windows api
They would have a hell of a time trying to say they want to control API usage after letting everyone and their mother use it free and unrestricted for decades. But I wouldn’t put it past them to try.
This is the final hurdle keeping me on windows, a seamless gaming experience. If SteamOS can hammer everything out, there’s zero reason to stay.
I would argue that at this point, today, its already a fairly seamless experience.
The only singular issue is MMOs with invasive rootkit anticheats. All the MMO’s i’ve played have worked like a charm with zero issues, but thats because I actively avoid games that use invasive rootkit anticheat systems… and I did that on windows, too, so its never been a big issue for me.
Might be an issue if you love your korean mmos though.
and I’m not, like, a sysadmin with 2 decades of linux experience or anything. I’m just a random idiot.
I dont say this to proselytize or try to get you to convert/install today. Just a vewpoint from general everyday user.
Nope, I’m almost exclusively single player at this point. How’s the performance and everything? Is there any drop off?
Check for the games you play here, it will tell you if there’s good linux support for it currently
Everything runs about as good or better than on windows.
That doesnt mean there arent games that run bad… but those games run bad because of something wrong with the game, and not because of running it on Linux or Windows. Cities Skylines 2 and Starfield being prime examples of games that run like ass, because they are ass, and not because of running it on Linux or proton. . . Just for full disclosures sake.
I will say that I run a gaming specific distro (I personally use nobara, but I’ve also heard good things about other gaming distros like bazzite) that takes care of a lot of the headache and has all the annoying shit setup and installed ready to go. It would definitely be more headache trying to get to the same point on, say, ubuntu.
My biggest issue is I work in IT and by the time I’m done for the day I absolutely don’t want to screw with it. I just wanna fire up and go. It seems that I might need to do some research, as things have progressed further than I’d realized.
Thats pretty much my experience with every game I play anymore. Its just click and go.
The only extra step, is something you only have to do once upon fresh install of steam, and thats go into settings > Compatibility > Enable steam play for all games, and set the default proton to use for them to proton experimental.
after that every windows game you download will automatically use proton experimental and should just run right off the bat.
Its genuinely amazing how far proton has come just in this last year alone, and gaming on steam in general… and for that latter part, a lot of the progress is simply due to the gaming focus distros that have everything pre installed, configured, and setup ready to go.
The only problem I have gaming on Linux these days is anti-cheat on a couple titles. Everything else is seamless already. The steam client works just as it does on Windows.
SteamOS will let you pay games from GOG, right?
Because they’re DRM free, they’re super easy to install too! Another install method is Heroic
Yes you just have to sideload the client. I believe Lutris makes it easy but I don’t use GOG myself.
Heroic makes it even easier
Imagine gaming with no windos OS…. The future is better!
No need to imagine!
I’m legitimately curious how many half-baked ad-filled second-to-the-punch products will be too many for Microsoft before they finally capitulate.
Man, if microsoft capitulated, and gave us a Windows 7 - 2, that was just windows 7 with current support, no spyware, no telemetry, and a nice coat of polish… I would definitely be tempted to switch back lol
I hope to see this before the EoL date set for Windows 10 and a bunch of people throw out perfectly good machines to but something that works with Windows 11.
Personally, I won’t use Windows 11 on my home machines. But my concern is that I install a distro this year and want to switch to SteamOS later, but would have to start over with customizations, etc. in the new distro. I wish SteamOS was available now for gaming rigs!
I think it should be available just in time for Windows 10 sunset later this summer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebmp2FIrTlE
my concern is that I install a distro this year and want to switch to SteamOS later, but would have to start over with customizations, etc. in the new distro.
I wouldn’t sweat that at all.
I switched distros last week, didn’t like the new one as much as I thought I would, and switched again a few days later. It’s not that big of a deal. Install some apps, reload your files from a USB stick. It’s not a major commitment.
A good way to keep this easy for yourself is to keep the files you actually care about like pictures, game saves, documents, etc all on a separate partition. It makes it very easy to make a backup for distro hopping.
You can nuke your OS as many times as you like, and everything will be exactly in the same place.
If you want to be slightly fancier, you can use a btrfs subvolume and not have to worry about sizing partitions correctly.
lvm2 noises intensify
@cadekat @Olgratin_Magmatoe doesn’t ext4 have this feature or am I missing something?
I don’t believe it does, but I could be wrong!
Steam is terrified of the Microsoft store. It’s part of why they’re moving to linux
Even MS hasn’t dared to release a version of Windows you can’t switch out of “S mode” yet, but the fact that it even exists would be troubling for them.
MS would love a walled garden like Apple have made, but there’s no way in hell it would ever pan out for them, and certainly not before regulation arrives (probably from the EU) that would stamp it out, and that’s before you take into account the business implications. Windows only exists because of all the pre-existing software. Flattening the only reason to stay would be suicide.
thats exactly why Valve start Fighting Against Windows, UWP And Microsoft store.
Sure, but Valve is terrified of the Microsoft store for a subtly, but importantly, different reason than why Microsoft should be terrified of Steam OS.
Microsoft should be terrified that Steam OS will destroy their monopoly by making it so users no longer have to use their product.
Valve is terrified that Microsoft will destroy their monopoly by making it so users no longer can use their product.
So in the end, consumers win?
In this case, between Valve winning and Microsoft winning, a Valve win is good for consumers.
Valve winning is less awful for consumers.
Valve is still a multi billion dollar company, who had to be forced into compliance with lawsuit and regulation to get even the most basic shit like refunds for bad/broken/scam games.
Valve does have a better history
Those are two orthogonal things, but they do both point towards Valve being the better choice between the two. But if there were a Valve vs. Microsoft duality where the choice that’s better for anyone that’s not the two of them is to side with Microsoft, I’d be disappointed with Valve, but I’d choose the Microsoft route.
I don’t think that’s likely, as Valve have repeatedly made choices that are better for the consumer even when they’re not better for Valve, but I’m not ruling out the possibility.
As long as SteamOS doesn’t fail, yes. If SteamOS draws enough gamers for there to be a healthy amount on Windows and SteamOS there will be competition between the two OS-s, which will benefit everyone. If SteamOS does draw away the supermajority of gamers then we still benefit because the open source nature of Linux makes it much harder for Valve to have total control like Microsoft has.
We shall see, there has been a rise recently
People use steam because it’s better than alternatives, if it dies consumers will lose
Oh I was thinking competition on the market. But yes, Valve is great
Microshit already lost, most windows users just don’t know it yet. Sure microshit will get another 25 years as generations shift… Similar to opinions on israel but the trend is set
They probably give it the side eye every time it comes up
Microsoft could also be terrified of how shitty Windows 11 is. I have to think back to Millennium Edition to compare to something this disastrous, but Satya doesn’t care about Windows, Surface, or XBox. Microsoft’s future is M365, Azure, and D365. Big fat high margin Enterprise Agreements since everyone is locked into their proprietary shitty office formats. And they get enterprise problems with audit, identify, access control like few other businesses.
What I don’t know understand is why companies refuse to sell off businesses that they know will die off from their neglect. A shame, except for Windows.
Windows 98 was supported until almost a year after Windows XP’s release, so nobody really had to use Millennium Edition. Windows 10’s support is ending in October and no new version has been announced.
There is nothing to be terrified of for MS, windows can implement mandatory rectal scans to log in and linux wouldn’t break 20% market share.
windows can implement mandatory rectal scans to log in
I for one would swap back to Windows from Liinux if this was implemented!
Linux is already over 15% in India
A fresh install of ME was typically fine, the live update usually fucked things up big time.
I’d compare the Windows 11 disaster to Windows 8; only that they released 8.1 in relatively short succession, with most issues actively fixed.
Microsoft always follows the pattern of good OS, bad OS, good OS, bad OS. We just have to wait for Windows 12 for a good one.
It’s true:
3.0 - aka the Windows Protection Fault release 3.1/3.11/WFWG, now with far fewer WPFs 95 - I lost nearly a year of life waiting for it to reboot, again. 98! Second Edition TBF ME - Lets remove stuff and cause cause problems XP - SP2 - I can login before my PC is taken over by RPC calls from the Internet! Vista - UAC up the Longhorn ass 7 - took long enough 8 - 1.5 half complet OSes 10 - erased 1 OS, completed the other 11 - I am still waiting for file Explorer to open. Where is fileman.exe? It’s so laggy, why does the context menu draw out one row at a time.
10 sucked ass. It’s the reason I stayed on Windows 7 way longer than I should have.
I did the same, and when I switched I just switched to Linux rather than another Windows version.
Then again I’ve been playing with Linux (and using it professionally on the server side) since the 90s, so am not at all representative of most people out there.
10 was good?
I liked it just fine. You have to admit it was good compared to 8.
I actually liked 8.1. 10 was fine until they started hiding all of the classic control panel settings and stuff behind their new ones and we got a total fustercluck of windows, buttons and options.
I’m absolutely amazed how they still don’t seem to be able to rid themselves of the old control panel. The new settings menus still lack so many features. They’ve been around for almost 10 years now. What’s going on there?
Year of linux desktop, amirite?
Jesus, news outlets love hyperbole, don’t they. We are not even at 5% market share.
He specifically didn’t say that. Instead of criticizing that they aren’t nuanced enough you should read the nuance they actually wrote:
Let me be clear: The odds of a massive, immediate shift away from Windows PCs aren’t great. This isn’t a “year of the Linux desktop” rallying cry. But if there is a Linux desktop that exists today, it’s the Steam Deck. And that makes SteamOS a bellwether for greater proliferation of non-Windows devices (if not necessarily “Linux” specifically) in a huge range of form factors.
Then the title is misrepresenting what they are saying (i.e., clickbait). The title “Microsoft should be terrified of SteamOS” reads as ‘SteamOS would threaten Windows dominance on desktop space’.
Bro, just admit you only read the headline before coming down to comment.
I don’t know how long it’ll take desktop Linux to reach 10% market share. Could be a couple of years, could be decades, could be never. But once it reaches 10%, I give it 5 years before it’s over 80%.
When most/all multiplayer games start working on Linux that’s when Linux can really start taking off.
They do. We’re already there.
The only titles that don’t work are the ones with kernel level anti-cheat, and that needs to die anyway.
All games that enforce kernel level anti-cheat won’t work
As someone who almost exclusively plays multiplayer games - we are def not there. I agree with you that kernel-level anti-cheat needs to go and games should focus more on AI-based (behavior and pattern analysis) anti-cheats instead. But, it’s simply not fair to to say that “we’re already there” when almost 50% of the largest (most played) games out there don’t work on Linux.
We are not there. Is it Linux’s fault? No. But we are absolutely not there, yet.
I have a Windows PC to play Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, and more recently Marvel Rivals. We’re still not quite there yet, although it was pretty cool that Baulders Gate worked on Linux.
I don’t know about Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, but Marvel Rivals worked fine out of the box for me.
For context:
CPU: Intel 9900k
GPU: RTX 3080ti
Distro: EndeavorOS
Display: WaylandBoth of those games are marked gold on protonDB, so you shouldn’t have to use windows to run them if you want (although marvel rivals apparently needs
SteamDeck=1 %command%in the launch options): https://www.protondb.com/app/3107230 https://www.protondb.com/app/2767030Interesting… thanks for this. I’ll need to look into protondb more; had not heard of it prior to this.
I was a part of the pre-EA access group for Pantheon so my game isn’t a part of Steam. Is this a Steam specific thing?
Proton is certainly “cleaner” to use with Steam, but you don’t have to use Steam to use proton. I’d recommend adding the executable to Steam as a non-Steam game for simplicity. Otherwise you can use Lutris or find a tutorial online to run that specific executable with proton outside of Steam
I appreciate the info, and willingness to discuss this. I think you’ve been able to identify my point of reluctance around all of this now; it feels like work. When I’m done with work, I don’t want to do more work in order to get my games to play. Might explain why I bought a PS5 in May too.
Maybe I’ll give this some investigation on my next holiday / day off. That way it’ll feel only “kinda” like work.
That’s a fair point, linux has gotten a lot better with stuff ‘just working’ but when it doesn’t, it requires some research and tinkering.
I was figuring something out the other day and it dawned on me that the reason I’ve become so enamored with linux is that it’s a hit of nostalgia from getting things working in the 90s. (Also I’m a nerd and I think the way computers work is fascinating lol)
Are you serious? Most games can be played on Linux? I don’t care about the kernel anti cheat games, since that shit is not going on my pc anyway
Proton is basically magic. I’ve got 1960 games on steam and I have a chunk that are listed as ‘untested’ but less than 10 that are listed as incompatible. The games listed as untested also usually end up just working. You may have to mess with proton or winetricks sporadically, but even that is very rare in my experience. It is nearly always an issue in a multiplayer game with anti-cheat when it just doesn’t work.
@BarbecueCowboy @madcaesar That’s basically my experience as well. Usually, the developers need to add a flag in their anti-cheat builds, and they’ll just work; however, developers are frequently not interested.
If you aren’t playing games with a kernel anti cheat, legit 99.99% of games will work. Nearly every broken game is due to an anticheat. ProtonDB lists only 4% of the top 1000 Steam games as “borked”, and the majority of those are due to anticheat. Any that aren’t will likely be fixed by Proton updates.
If you also want to avoid any games that might not be super smooth, filtering Bronze ranked games are another 3%. Silver is another 8%, but I’ve never had an issue running a Silver rated game.
My issue is I only play multiplayer games and most have KLAC.
I’m sure there are exceptions… I haven’t tried every game. But most games in my Steam library work with 0 tinkering, and the rest usually just require setting a few launch options.
The only games I haven’t been able to get working at all are Riot games (vanguard anti-cheat is a b*****) and the VR mods for HL2.
I played enshrouded and path of exile and Diablo and Elden ring coop and bg3 coop all with zero issues except on like the first few days of release if there are any.
The worst thing right now about Linux multiplayer gaming with anticheat is the release day experience. Or if it’s a AAA title with heavy graphics expectations, odds are they use some weird directx fuckery that’s not available in vulkan immediately and needs patching.
All of that gets fixed when Steam deck compatibility at launch day becomes more of a thing, so it’s just a matter of time tbh. I’ve been using Linux dual-boot since Hardy Heron and as my sole OS since 2018, 2025 may be honestly the year of the Linux desktop no joke.
I haven’t had a problem running anything yet, currently playing fallout 4 with f4se and a few mods using a ds4 controller over bluetooth.
That’s probably one of the buggiest games out there so that’s saying something. It’s the first game I’ve had to tinker with the launch settings though
Seems more like about 20% of games. It’s definitely improving but still a long way to go.
20% of games are broken or working? That’s way off either way.
Yea… you’re probably right. Maybe it’s just the games that I want to play. Those tend to not be Linux compatible (if they’re in steam), and for the games that aren’t even in Steam, I don’t bother trying to make them work in wine or anything like that. Just dual boot and call it a day.
Steam Deck compatibility has a much higher standard since it requires the performance being good, gamepad support, etc, and even that’s at 40%. General Linux can’t be less than 95% for games that don’t require kernel level anticheat. Try checking a random sampling on https://www.protondb.com/.
I appreciate it; seeing more than a couple of people recommending protondb. I’ll have to investigate it on my next day off from work that’s not a weekend. Thank you.
It’s the year of the Linux Desktop!!
(2025 is “The year of the Windows 11 PC refresh,” allegedly)
Wait. Since when has Microsoft’s Windows team been driking the same from the same copium jars as us Linux users have for years?
That’s hilarious.
Oh it will be the year of the Windows 11 refresh, there’s no question of that. Untold millions of business PCs will be making the change as Windows 10 goes EoL.
It’s a very different story in the home market. Frankly the only thing holding Windows Gaming in place is decades of increasing personal PC ownership but that ownership / use rate is now declining as normal people transition to using smartphones and tablets.
In just a few short years, ten at most, gaming on Windows will be about as relevant as gaming on Mac. It may still be called “PC Gaming”, you can already see media trying to redefine gaming on SteamDeck and other handhelds as “PC Gaming”, but those games won’t be built around the Windows OS.
This. Family have even ditched laptops for tablets, and businesses would definitely not risk a new eco system just because of 11
I think Steam Machines would be successful now.
I believe it could be killer casual home PC if they had clearly stated specs with expected power draw and output. Not everything needs to run at 240 Hz in 4k res… as steamdeck showed. It has too low res though for desktop PC, so new steam machine should be a bit beefier than just rebranded deck.
I could be horribly wrong, but with a disgruntled console market and SteamOS’s success on the Steam Deck, a plug and play device along with a controller could be very successful at capturing departing console users and it would really give a kick start to linux gaming.
I know there’s lots of people who want to try PC gaming, but are not sure how to or are scared to do so, a Steam Machine would be the perfect device for them, they could just plug it into their TV and be gaming in minutes, just like the simplicity of the Deck.
