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The issue with tipping is an issue with capitalism.
It is capitalism that has ruined nice things. Imagine the first person who tipped someone because their service was good and it was a nice thing to do. Next other people started doing it as well, which makes the profession with tipping more favorable.
This leads to a higher supply of workers and lower demand and the market adjusts which means lower pay because “they will receive tips”.
Also it is easy to vilify the shop owners for doing something that the system encourages and even demands them. We don’t know how or in what ways the shop owners are suffering because of the system.
Also to acknowledge their suffering is not to say that their suffering is equal to the suffering of their workers but rather we need to identify that everybody suffers in capitalism (except the very rich/elites).
The way to fix this is to stop tipping altogether. This will hurt the workers for sure but their suffering is necessary in order for things to change, at least under the current system.
Or alternatively, we can try and abolish the system altogether.
I mean, tipping culture only seems to be a problem in the US. Countries in Europe and what have you are fine and they are still capitalist.
Sure tipping for things may not be applicable in eu. But here’s another example: imagine the first person who got a loan cuz they wanted to buy a house but didn’t have the money at the time.
The bank who lent the money did a nice thing. Other banks and people started doing the same. And because people had access to more money, the price of houses increased to match with it.
Despite the fact that those people don’t actually have that money and now it is a requirement. Nobody can afford to buy a house unless they go into debt. Again this is capitalism and the free market in action.
The reason tipping so “people can have livable wage” is not a thing in the EU is because the EU does have a livable minimum wage.
The concept of minimum wage is inherently anti-capitalistic. It is against the principles of free market.
EU doesn’t say anything about livable minimum wages. That is up to each member country to decide for themselves.
Not even everyone in EU have an actual minimum wage.
Minimum wages is NOT why tipping isn’t customary in Europe.
Here’s the problem. You think you know what you’re talking about. But you don’t. It just sounds nice in your head and so you start to believe your own bullshit.
Your whole point is “you don’t know” without actually providing anything. I may be wrong but at least im saying something. Please try and at least say something, otherwise what’s the point of your comment? Gain upvotes/give down votes on lemmy?
And at least for me, I actually live in EU and many of my friends have worked and many acquaintances are still working as servers so at least my opinion has some worth.
Where are you from btw?
So the answer isn’t simply “Abolish capitalism” the answer is actually “Capitalism but with logical rules and regulations”
Lol, what?
I am literally talking about how much suffering it would cause if we keep trying to “fix capitalism” with bandage after bandage and how each and everything would need fixing which will turn into something not capitalistic anyways.
I don’t want to be rude but people should have better reading comprehension and learn to read between the lines or just read i guess.
So the “easier” solution is to tear the entire thing down and make something new from scratch? Seems like it’d be far, far harder to do that
“There’s no way to prevent this” - Says the only country where this happens regularly.
It’s not a “Capitalism” problem. It’s a USA problem.
I’d say both. You guys just did a speed run.
Hey I know this is completely off-topic, but do you have thoughts on the moral implications of NATO?
If you can’t afford living wages for your staff so they’re not dependant on tips, your store shouldn’t be open.
Everyone working a job should be making a living wage. “Oh, but then the price of my McDonald’s cheeseburger will skyrocket!!” Fucking good. If it’s not economical to produce a product without abusing people, that product shouldn’t exist. Period. I will die on this hill.
They did away with most of their staff and their prices went up over 100% over the last 5 years or so anyway. It’s corporate greed all the way down.
“Oh, but then the price of my McDonald’s cheeseburger will skyrocket!!” Fucking good
I don’t know why people keep repeating this propaganda. Plenty of countries pay actual wages to their employees, don’t have tipping, and the prices are still fucking cheaper than America.
regardless, it doesn’t matter if people are already forced to tip. it just means you’re already paying more but it’s just not included in the sticker price
Apologies, I’m not trying to say that that argument is true or has any basis in reality, more so that the argument is completely irrelevant
Hamburgling used to be a decent profession. Now with such cheap burgers all those skilled workers are left out.
Paying people a living wage would only increase the price by pennies. This is just another “conservative” taking point without any basis in reality.
What’s stopping McDonald’s from just saying that they need to increase prices by significantly more than that to accommodate the increased wages? Y’know, with lies? It happened with groceries, so I can imagine them seeing this as a good excuse to try to squeeze some more profit out.
That already happened
Greed is a tragically reliable behavior to anticipate from a Corp.
There’s no hill to assault, I don’t think anybody except the abusers disagree with you.
You’d be surprised. In this specific example, many people believe such jobs are meant only for high schoolers and anyone else in that job is too stupid or lazy to do better and therefore don’t deserve better.
I wonder how many damn products we use on a daily basis that have been produced with some level of abuse along the production chain. Probably easier to count the ones without abuse, eh.
I agree completely, but I still stand by my original point.
Oh for sure. My comment wasn’t meant to undermine your point. Ideally there would be no abuse whatsoever, that should be the minimum baseline. I stand by your point with you, friend.
Custom 0%
It ain’t my job to pay your employees salaries
Maybe it’s your job to avoid patronizing places that don’t pay their employees enough though?
I absolutely will pick the no-tips place given a choice, but I take issue with that wording. Basically every business pays as little as possible, by design.
“As little as possible” and “not enough” are two different things.
I suppose, but it’s really hard to separate. You have to pick a cutoff, which in the face of a world full of intangible wealth and costs is hard, and then if you come out with a number that’s too high you basically have nowhere you can shop.
There’s select industries that are super shitty, and I avoid those, but paying minimum wage for unskilled labour is a normal industry. (And, ironically, a lot of the fair-ethical-organic type businesses are super shitty themselves, because everyone wants to get paid extra and some will do horrible things to make that happen)
You’re saying this like it’s necessary to eat in restaurants with waiters. It isn’t. It’s a luxury.
Wait, where are you? I thought I recognised you from .ca, but it sounds like you might be thinking of the US system where they can pay nothing except tips. In my province you earn at least minimum wage as a waiter, and tips.
If I were to just straight up refuse to eat from restaurants under any circumstance, I’d be heavily incurring those intangible costs I mentioned, because it’s an expected social thing. That being said, I might consider it if I was in the US, but I’m not.
Also, tips have expanded well beyond servers, but that’s kind of beside the point.
Well you thought wrong. I was born and raised in the U.S. and lived there until about two weeks ago when we fled.
And in my 47 years in America, I was never in a situation where I couldn’t say, “no thanks” if someone invited me to a restaurant. And who invites you to restaurants and makes you pay?
Given a choice? There’s always a choice. You’re just leaving yourself a convenient back door to not tip while benefitting from tipping culture.
I would happily pay more for my meal if it meant I didn’t have to tip. The benefit we get from not tipping is marginal compared to the benefit restaurant owners get by not paying living wage. Not to mention it’s added stress to the actual people doing the work because they don’t even get the guarantee of a decent paycheck.
And there is a choice, you chose to perpetuate the system that grossly exploits the laborer, I choose to have minimal participation in such a system. Want to take a guess which of the two actually has a chance to fix the system?
…what? I’m saying they can always help it, they can always not go somewhere that expects tips. But if you would like to go somewhere that expects tips, you better fucking tip. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Don’t want to support that system? Don’t participate in it at all. Don’t just not participate in the part that costs you money. I don’t get why you’re lecturing me as if I defend tipping as a system.
But you are defending the system. You’re literally saying if you end up in a place that expects tipping then you should tip. What if you’re going out with a group and that group decides to go somewhere that expects tipping? Are you supposed to remove yourself from the group so you wouldn’t go into a place like that?
You can’t take this black and white stance where if you end up participating in this system you also have to perpetuate that system. Making the customer feel like they’re responsible for the livelihood of the staff is how this tipping culture is kept alive and that is exactly what you’re doing right now. You’re trying to claim we are responsible for their livelihood simply because we stepped into the restaurant and ate.
Show me exactly where I defended the system. Show me a single line.
I said if you don’t want tipping to continue, you can’t support restaurants that tip. If you go to a restaurant that expects tips and you don’t tip, you are keeping them in business while screwing over the person working. It is the worst of all worlds. In that scenario you are perpetuating the system by participating in it. It’s a choice.
Certainly not lol, what a ridiculous thing to say
No, it’s not, however as a near-minimum wage worker myself, it is not my job to cover a massive corporation’s lack of proper budgeting…
If you keep patronizing such businesses, why would they ever do that? They know they don’t have to in order to get your money. And it is the same with your own near-minimum wage job. You are working against your own best interests. Nothing will change while people are willing to give their money to companies that don’t pay their workers a fair wage.
Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against tipping if the person did a good job, but a company trying to guilt trip me into giving them a mandatory tip? Nah, that’s bullshit, it’s essentially “Oh, we can’t pay our employees enough, would you mind helping 🥺”. Outta here with that.
Right,so don’t use those businesses. You give them no reason to do anything differently.
All you are doing is helping to maintain the status quo.
You don’t get it, I think? The point is to get the workers to quit or protest because they don’t get paid enough, so that the place can increase the prices instead so they can pay their workers. If the place is still providing a nice service or good food or whatever it may be, you don’t want it to go out of business. Just make a worker-positive change.
It takes everyone to fix these issues. It is not a one-sided job. Every time you give these establishments money, you help them.
And there is no shortage of replacement waiters out there for the ones who quit.
Most people won’t quit, especially in the US from what I know. If they are already underpaid, how can they quit? And if pretty much every place treats waiters the same, what choice do they have?
I think it is the case of “you think in the right direction, but you don’t do it all the way, so now I’m gonna attack you over this until you stop doing anything”.
Not paying tips is a good start.
Can you give an example of that ever working? Because boycotts sure as fuck work.
How? Those people just aren’t going to get the money. Its not like the company is going to pay them extra because you didnt tip. Theyve already decided that the wage will be low Your logic doesn’t really make sense
Rewarding the employer for underpaying the employees is not, in any way, the right direction, though? Not tipping is just telling the employees “I don’t care if you get paid, so long as I get what I want”
I would not, that’s… what I’m trying to imply here… Yeah, businesses who don’t pay their employees enough bad.
The moment they ask for a tip they are not getting anything nor a repeat customer.
Presenting the possibility to tip on the screen is ok, I think. The tone (and from my European perspective the percentages) is, what I find weird.
I agree, the %s are too high, and there should be a “no tip” option there (even though you should tip here especially full service but not counter service), but also the “30% soso?!” Even I’m not tipping this one.
Fake: Tip isn’t calculated on top of tax.
That kinda depends where you live. Also, source
I’m not even paying the bill at that point.
Nice precedent for corruption
ITT.
I love the scene where a group of sociopathic murders are all shocked at how scummy someone has to be to deprive a waitress of her wages, as if it’s justified because the owner doesn’t pay her either.
It is absolutely justified. Businesses are able to pay employees, it’s just more profitable to move that burden onto customers.
Result? Customers pay more, and workers don’t have a stable income. The only winning party is a business.
By tipping, you help the worker short-term, but aid in proliferating a system that makes it so much worse for them.
That’s why I love cultures where tipping isn’t just uncommon, but is flat out rejected, because workers are paid well and are proud of it.
This was at a self-service kiosk, too, right?
That means the tip goes to the customer, right?
/s
If any place said a 30% tip is so so, I’m not tipping.
If I saw this I would give them exactly what I think they’re worth. $0.01 and a bad online review.
If you said “$.02 (point oh two) and a bad online review” it would’ve had an extra layer and sounded cooler while rhyming.
Select “Custom” and type 0.00 without breaking eye contact. Be careful, though, that 0.00 can quickly turn into 8.88 if you’re not looking.
You really think it’s the owner and not some poor, underpaid schmuck manning the register?
Yeah, it’s definitely the owner’s fault. That doesn’t change the fact that the underpaid schmuck always tries to blame the customer for not leaving a tip.
Relevant post from earlier this month
Honestly if it starts at 30% then im 0% tipping and they can fuck right off.
That’s an immediate $0.
Custom: 0% HAHAFUCKYOU
Be sure to make eye contact as you type in 0.00
Custom: -100%
Infinite money glitch
I’ve actually seen 2 recent practices that I hate more than this. While this is frustrating, at least you can input a custom tip. I’ve also seen them where they show 3 different dollar amounts that don’t indicate percentage but doing the math, it’s definitely way over the usual 20%. Then there’s the one I hate the most which I keep seeing at places where you don’t usually tip. You go to pay with your card and the little transaction/card machine shows different tip amounts, the default of which is already set. If you don’t want to leave a tip, you have to figure out which button to push to do so. They’re all different and it can be very confusing. I even saw one where each option was labeled in correlation with a button on the screen, except that they didn’t match up. And what do you do then? Ask the person at the register how not to tip them?
I leave a Google review for places that have shitty tipping practices.
I would.
You bet I would.
[to cashier] “excuse me, ma’am, i can’t seem to find the button to not leave a tip. can you show me where it is?”
I enjoy quietly asking, “do these tips actually go to you?”
I’ve gotten a discreet “no” headshake more than a few times. Then you can feel justified taking however long you want to select zero.
