• TypicalHog@lemm.eeEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    Calling Trump a Nazi is the same as calling an average Lemmy user a communist. Or calling Kamala a communist.

          • VintageGenious@sh.itjust.works
            0·
            3 months ago

            No it is not :( When you make a wild statement you have to prove it. You cannot just say random things then call a troll anyone that tries to understand

            • TwiddleTwaddle@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              0·
              3 months ago

              I dont have to prove shit to you and you aren’t trying to understand. If you wanted to understand that trump is a fascist or Kamala isn’t any any way a communist, you can find PILES of jourlism and academic works discussing those topics - you just have to leave the right-wing news media bubble.

              Your entitlement to my time and this space as a place where you can demand proof for basic political concepts is the absolute definition of sealioning.

              • VintageGenious@sh.itjust.works
                0·
                3 months ago

                Are you high?

                When did I say anything about Kamala being a communist? You’re the one stating facts you cannot prove, I never stated such thing (since it’s obviously false).

                Your biased opinion is not a “basic politcal concept”. And I doubt there is any reliable journal that would use those simplistic antagonizing views.

                What makes you think I would look at right wing news media shit? I wouldn’t be here lol. You need to understand that not agreeing with you is different than being fascist and that being fascist is different than being nazi, maybe you should learn about basic political concepts.

                Anyway, asking for source for a random claim is not entitlement but legitimate behavior and arguing against it is arguing in favour of disinformation.

  • Spectre@lemmy.ml
    0·
    3 months ago

    Just a reminder that democrats funded a genocide and police brutality. Democrats are no better than Republicans.

  • AnAmericanPotato@programming.devEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    Ridiculous.

    He specifically started talking about American party politics, unprompted, making sweeping statements about both Democrats and Republicans. NOW he wants to blame us for…being concerned with his views on American party politics? Dude. Get real.

    Saying stupid shit now and then is forgivable, but not if you take it in as the new nucleus of your public image. Why do so many public figures have this compulsion to double down combatively?

  • ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    Now to reply to the post itself, I think this sums it up:

    As we say in Germany, if there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.

    Though the sad truth is that almost every single product or service we use are owned and run by people with similar opinions, it is literally the nature of the capitalist beast, it’s how it function, and why it will always decay in to fascism - because those with the power and the money (not just those at the very very top, but several levels bellow them, too, like this guy) will always and forever care solely about maintaining it and creating more for themselves, that’s it. And to do that, they have to side with whichever dictator-du-jour benefits them the most.

    Remember - there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and this is only one of the reasons why.

      • M137@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 months ago

        I saw mullvad ads on the trams in my city yesterday, really nice to see something good like it being advertised like that.

      • curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        0·
        3 months ago

        Probably where I’ll go next, I have until the end of February and then my business will be elsewhere.

        Since I set up some family at the same time, I’ll be doing it for a few accounts.

  • Gammelfisch@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 months ago

    The Suisse should return Andy to Taiwan and the ROC can ship his ass off to mainland China to enjoy life under a dictatorship.

    Reddit…f that noise.

  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    The hypocrisy of many calling Trump a Nazi is mind boggling.

    As far as I can tell Trump can only be deemed a Nazi by association - he’s not been going around spouting stuff about people’s races making them superior or inferior to others like an ethno-Fascist and instead he’s been mostly using traditional Fascist dog whistles (I.e. about the superiority of the Nation), but since he has indeed cultivated the support of neo-nazis and other ethno-Fascists in the US, he’s associating with Nazis.

    The hypocrisy comes because the most Nazi ideology around right now is Zionism - they’re ethno-Fascists, claiming to represent a race, going on and on about the superiority of their race (calling it “the chose people”) whilst being overtly racist about Arabs in general and even more so Palestinians who they call “human animals”, i.e. subhumans whis is literally untermenschen - and, even more extreme, they’re mass murdering them right now by the hundreds of thousands.

    Anybody who here and now calls Trump a Nazi due to his association with ethno-Fascists but has previously been defending Biden, Harris and most of the Democrat party as not being Nazis all the while they were actively supporting with weapons the present day Nazis who were actively engaged in a genocide along racial lines, is a hypocrite.

    Ditto anybody going around criticizing people who chose to neither vote Democrat nor Republican: it is absolutely understandable that when people only have the choice between two sets of Nazis, many chose “neither”. After all, if one is a Nazi by supporting Nazis, then the Republicans supporting of Nazis makes them Nazis and giving support to the Nazis-Republicans (for example by voting for them) makes one a Nazi and exactly in the same way the Democrats supporting the present day Nazis makes them Nazis, so supporting Nazi-Democrats makes one a Nazi - anybody who does indeed believe people can become “Nazi by association” land does not want to be a Nazi, would refuse to vote for either Nazi-by-association party.

    I truly respect those with the genuine principles and ideological consistency of calling both main American parties Nazis (as I said, if one thinks associated with Nazi = Nazi, then logically they are both Nazis) or at least Nazi-supporting, because they are.

    It’s only the political tribalists for whom one group of Nazi-supporters are Nazis but the other group of Nazi-supporters are not Nazis because the former is “them” and the other is “us” who are despicable hypocrites.

  • kreskin@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 months ago

    Sounds like the CEO of proton doesnt understand the basic privacy concerns for the US VPN market. He should really look that up someday-- theres money to be made in the Us market if he cared enough.

    • humble peat digger@lemm.eeEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      Americans just now finding out what has always been in place.
      Vpn from Switzerland won’t save you - they will share our data if it comes to us needing access to it. And if proton refuses - it would have been shut down already like tiktok

  • Gammelfisch@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 months ago

    The motherfucker lives in Switzerland and he supports Putin’s Sock Puppet. Fuck Andy. The USA will regress further away from the Swiss standard of living, which is what the USA should be striving for.

  • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 months ago

    Oh FFS. Please stop abusing the word “Nazi” for every tiny transgression against 2025-era US progressive biases. Why do Americans do this - do you not learn anything at school? Words have meanings. Whatever the reason, to compare someone who isn’t “fighting for a more just and equal society” to a “Nazi” just makes you look like a know-nothing ignoramus. It discredits whatever you have to say.

    • Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de
      0·
      3 months ago

      So calling minorities “vermin” and making up shit about immigrants eating the pets of US citizens is a “tiny transgression”? No, that is text book nazi propaganda fueled by hate and endorsed by idiots.

    • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      0·
      3 months ago

      To quote the incoming administration, “We need a genocide of trans people.”

      The LGBT community was one of the first groups in the camps. Alongside the immigrants and socialists. You know the famous picture of the Nazis burning books? Those books were records from the German Center for Sexual Wellness, a repository of knowledge about sex and sexuality, and the first known medical facility to treat transgender people using hormone therapy in the 1910s.

      Maybe you should learn history before saying something like a know-nothing ignoramus and discrediting whatever you have to say. But go off about “progressive biases.” To also quote a Republican complaint, “Reality has a left-leaning bias.” Is that what you think, too?

        • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          0·
          3 months ago

          And yet you fail to see the parallels between Trump’s rhetoric (one of Hitler’s first campaign promises was to build a wall around Germany to keep the job stealing immigrants out), his and his party’s stated goals, even his failed coup attempt (the Beer Hall Putsch sound familiar?), and the rise of Hitler’s Nazi party. Even the phrase “Make America Great Again” was used by a pro-Nazi American political group during the onset of WW2, who only disbanded after Pearl Harbor because it united the aggression of all sides of the political spectrum in the US.

          Your argument basically boils down to “They’re not oligarchs unless they come from the oligarchy region of Russia. Otherwise, they’re “sparkling billionaires.””

          You majored in this in college, while I’ve learned much of the finer details of the Nazi party because of Republican policies in the past decade. If it steps like a goose, Sig Heils like a goose, and quacks about the purity of Aryan blood, I’m sure as hell not calling it a duck because it’s an American goose and not a German one of 1910s breeding stock.

          And even in that metaphor, you could argue a direct lineage between the MAGA party and the Nazi party because the incoming president is the son of a real estate tycoon who was a German immigrant whose previous business was refining jet fuel for the Third Reich’s Me-262 Schwalbes produced by Messerschmitt.

          • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
            0·
            3 months ago

            Yes, I see the parallels. It’s a question of degree and context. Your average MAGA hat wearer is comparable to a Nazi in the same way that your average American “democratic socialist” who cheers on the murder of a CEO is comparable to a Stalinist. Both of them are reckless fools before they’re actual Nazis and communists. If either of them got their way, bad things would happen which would surprise them as much as anyone else. I think we would do well to turn down the temperature a bit and try to understand each other rather than throw around these big insulting words that clearly we don’t really understand.

            • Pup Biru@aussie.zoneEnglish
              0·
              3 months ago

              wow equating Nazis with communists - now there’s a false equivalence

              I think we would do well to turn down the temperature a bit and try to understand each other rather than throw around these big insulting words that clearly we don’t really understand.

              what a great way to turn down the temperature! being condescending… good work bud

              perhaps take a look at the comment votes once in a while and do some self-reflection on your communication style, if not the correctness of your statements and either say: sorry, i’m clearly miscommunicating, or sorry you’re right

              • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
                0·
                3 months ago

                perhaps take a look at the comment votes once in a while and do some self-reflection on your communication style, if not the correctness of your statements and either say: sorry, i’m clearly miscommunicating, or sorry you’re right

                So, it turns out there are people here who believe that comment votes somehow track truth, or at least something other than the prejudices and confirmation bias of those doing the voting.

                The naivety is sad enough (internet forums have existed for 30 years - have we learned nothing?). But it’s worse than that, because it suggests that you would put aside your reasoned views, your values even, in order to fit in with whatever the mob around you thinks. No democracy can work if everyone does this. Let’s hope you’re an exception.

                Apologies for the condescension but there was no alternative here.

            • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              0·
              3 months ago

              Your analogy is actually very apt because at the height of their power, the Nazi party made up a whopping 15% of the German population, IIRC.

              It doesn’t take a lot of crazies to end with a death count for a minority group so high that they only passed their pre-WW2 population levels about 15 years ago. It merely takes the indifference or implicit support of the majority. So many Americans are either one issue voters or indifferent because their rights aren’t up for debate every 4 years that the political compass has swung so extreme that in the first 6 months of (I think) 2022, there were more anti-trans bills proposed than there were days in the year at that point. I did the math, and it came out to roughly 1.2 anti-trans bills per day. The Nazis didn’t start with the gas chambers. They started with prisons and internment camps for political prisoners, LGBT people, immigrants, and anyone else they deemed “undesirable,” inspired by America’s treatment of the indigenous peoples.

              If we’re willing to call the people of Germany in WW2 Nazis or Nazi sympathizers, then we can call the “I’m a Republican, I vote for the nominee” crowd that I’ve known my entire life and the indifferent silent majority Nazi sympathizers as well, and the MAGA crowd that call for banning trans people from public spaces and to deport immigrants Nazis. They hold the same values about fascism and white supremacy, and many even wear the same outfits and fly the same flags as Nazi Germany. They’ve been marching in the streets since Trump’s first campaign. And we haven’t even talked about the white supremacist terrorist groups and militias. The FBI spends more than 50% of their time putting down white supremacist groups.

              We have been marching down the exact same path as 1910s Germany for years, and we need to call it out. Even Hitler referred to the US as the sisterland across the ocean who shared his values in Mein Kampf. In any other country, the KKK would be considered a terrorist group. Here, they’re a political activist group who almost got one of their leaders elected to a fairly major government position.

              The Democrats have spent 50 years “reaching across the aisle.” How’d that go for them in this past election? The country seems to have slipped ever further towards a Fourth Reich to me. When Republicans came out in support of Harris in swing states, she lost a large percentage of independent voters in those states - like 5% of the total voters in each state. There’s no understanding to be had with white supremacists and fascists. All they want is for people like me to die.

    • Leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      Are you trying to be wrong on every thread about this you post in? To follow up on @EldritchFeminity point about the LGBT community, one of the other groups first targeted by the Nazi’s were the disabled. Trump is on record as stating (as per his nephew) that disabled people should ‘just die’ and has openly mocked disabled people. His views are so close to 1930s/40s era Nazism as to make no real difference.

      • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 months ago

        Are you trying to be wrong on every thread about this you post in?

        So you’re keeping tabs on me, I see. Maybe you’re drawing up a list of my transgressions?

    • kata1yst@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      3 months ago

      Trump literally brags about studying Hitlers speeches. His father was a well known Nazi sympathizer.

      Trump often uses Nazi rhetoric and sologans. The examples of these are extremely numerous and no other politician has been caught as often, all but assuring dog-whistling.

      Neo-Nazis openly back Trump and are in his inner circle. They’ve been caught with swastika flags and tattoos, SS tattoos, 88 tattoos, often ending their merchandise on Trump’s own websites with $X.88, lifting their arms in a Sig Heil at rallies, etc etc etc etc.

      If it quacks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and literally claims to be a Nazi- we should call it a Nazi.

      • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 months ago

        Sure, the recesses of Trump’s mind seem to be a pretty dark place. But the guy was already president and we all know that whatever happens next, it’s not going to look anything like Germany circa 1938. You know it, I know, we all all know it. America has strong institutions, Trump is fat and lazy, and most of his followers are not even “national conservatives” let alone fascists or (ridiculously) Nazis. They’re people who voted against inflation and immigration. In the meantime, by hystericizing the language like this, you’re simultaneously making fools of yourselves and alienating people who you might otherwise persuade.

        • kata1yst@sh.itjust.works
          0·
          3 months ago

          Last time he had opposition inside his party. Powerful people who didn’t want to rock the boat, the 'old guard’s. He had a split supreme court. He had a pandemic that slowed and in many ways prevented his plans.

          Well, unfortunately, those old guard conservatives have largely been purged. The supreme court has been packed. And while pandemics are not entirely common, people have been lulled into a false sense of security and are unlikely to respond the same.

          I don’t expect us to lose our vote. But I do expect voter suppression to escalate dramatically.

          I don’t expect ethic cleansing, but I expect a lot of racial violence and escalating racial tensions.

          I don’t expect world war, but I do expect a massive erosion of global diplomacy and many minor conflicts.

          Most of the people who voted for him are largely brainwashed and uninformed or misinformed. Often times they’re scared or mistrusting rather than hateful.

          I don’t call them Nazi’s, and I sincerely hope we can bring many of them back into reality.

          But anyone who has paid attention to his rhetoric, his plans, his platform and still voted for it. Well there’s a word for people who supported the Nazi party in Germany but didn’t support the war or the ethnic cleansing. Nazis. They were called Nazis.

          • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
            0·
            3 months ago

            So you won’t call half of your fellow citizens Nazis, but they are, in fact, Nazis? Come on. And no, even Trump is not a Nazi, sorry. A quasi-proto-neo-fascist maybe, but not a Nazi. Deporting people who entered the country illegally is not “ethnic cleansing”, let’s be serious. Apart from tariffs and border security, Trump has no discernable beliefs, he just wants to people to suck up to him. Again: it’s ugly, but it’s not “Nazi”. You’re not being serious with language and I can tell from what you write that you know this already.

            • kata1yst@sh.itjust.works
              0·
              3 months ago

              You continue to post responses to my evidence, but seem to refuse to engage with that evidence in any meaningful way.

              Further, your posts are becoming more and more pedantic, insulting, and condescending.

              I can tell you’re not invested in a respectful discussion, but rather in a platform for your ranting.

              I’ll leave you to it and won’t respond further.

              • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
                0·
                3 months ago

                I can tell you’re not invested in a respectful discussion

                Is downvoting someone for their opinion “respectful”. Personally, I don’t do that.

        • BluescreenOfDeath@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          3 months ago

          And his refusal in the leadup to the 2020 election to denounce the Proud Boys.

          “Stand Back and Stand By” isn’t the kind of thing you say to a group you want nothing at all to do with.

    • valentinesmith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      0·
      3 months ago

      He is flirting with the alt-right. And some movements „dabble“ in nazi memorabilia to mention the most flagrant connections to it or his failure to even outright criticize Hitler.

      I know that the word Nazi is really triggering but its also true in this case. He is not said to be a Nazi himself but flirting with them. Which is factual and not really discrediting per se.

      If the only argument here is: Nazis can only be German and its a historical term that cannot ever be applied to other nations I think that belies how everyone consistently uses language in a not strict academic sense and even then there are academic papers linking him to Nazism and right ideology in general.

      And your other insinuation of saying that „anyone who isnt working for a more just and equal society“ would be applicable to Trump, his campaign and the things he platforms falls flat if you look at what his recurring talking points are. Sure let’s use the word Nazi less bit of course in association with Trump it gets used for very clear, explicit parallels. But I don’t think you really care about that if you try to frame everything as tiny transgressions by people who are just not „fighting for a more just and equal society“. If Nazi is too strong a word, what would you propose? And is the use of it logically a valid reason to discredit an opinion? On an open source platform talking about people who have English as a second or third language?

      • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 months ago

        If Nazi is too strong a word, what would you propose?

        Something that describes the phenomenon you’re talking about. “Nationalist”, “national populist”, “rightwing populist”, “hard-right reactionary”, etc etc. There are lots. No, they don’t get your blood pumping like “Nazi”, but the benefit is that they save you from looking like an ignorant extremist and might also help you be more persuasive.

    • sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz
      0·
      3 months ago

      […] to compare someone who isn’t “fighting for a more just and equal society” to a “Nazi” just makes you look like a know-nothing ignoramus.

      (emphasis mine)

      What an interesting way to describe the technocratic class that is aligning themselves with Trump. Are you up for a promotion at a FAANG, maybe? For recently rolling back some DEI policies perhaps?

  • JaggedRobotPubes@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    He’s kind of right on the money and kind of being completely dumb.

    The fact of it is that Republicans don’t want to help privacy or take down big tech’s abuses, they want to make it worse. All of the reasonable things Andy has said have taken place past that, so in a way the entire conversation is talking past the point.

    The question is, how can somebody so influential at a major privacy company not have such a pre-school understanding of major world figures’ relationships to his core business?

    • Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      That question is now irrelevant. He doesn’t and so his company cannot be trusted. He showed his hand and its a straight flush, suited ignorance.

  • Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 months ago

    I seem to remember that Switzerland has a history of profiting from their relationships with Nazi’s. Thus they might not be a good source of advice as to what to do about Nazi’s.

    • BothsidesistFraud@lemmy.world
      0·
      3 months ago

      It’s dumb to call Trump a nazi and the populist wing of the Republican party nazis.

      It’s not even clever at this point, maybe it was edgy and transgressive like 7 years ago.

      The reason it’s dumb is that you are wasting all of your powerful language and you will have no more if things get worse. Boy who cried wolf. Just like people did to racist which used to carry great power and now is basically meaningless as a powerful descriptor.

      • GlacialTurtle@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        3 months ago

        It’s not even clever at this point, maybe it was edgy and transgressive like 7 years ago.

        Are you really this childish that you genuinely think the only reason people might suggest Trump is a fascist is because it was “edgy and transgressive”? Not the fascist rhetoric, increasingly fascist policy and the various fascists he’s willing to work with and support?

        • BothsidesistFraud@lemmy.world
          0·
          3 months ago

          Nazism is a very small subset of fascism, they are not equivalent. Nazi also carries VERY heavy baggage which is inapplicable to Trump. Use the right terms.

          • GlacialTurtle@lemmy.mlEnglish
            0·
            3 months ago

            Hey guys, look at this dipshit, drawing irrelevant distinctions and pointlessly trying to police other peoples language because they think the only reason others would use those terms is because they’re “edgy and transgressive”.

            Tell me, where on the fascism to nazism meter is mass deportations, muslim bans, endorsing far right militias, supporting running over protestors, palling around with white supremacists, and seeking to eradicate trans people from public life? Are we at .49? or is it more like .76? My readings seems to be off. Just so I know I’m not using the incorrect terms so some moron from .world doesn’t get mad and try to incessantly police terms on the internet.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
            0·
            3 months ago

            Nazism is a very small subset of fascism, they are not equivalent. Nazi also carries VERY heavy baggage which is inapplicable to Trump. Use the right terms.

            Can’t tell if you’re defending trump or gatekeeping nazism.

      • TGS@lemmy.ml
        0·
        3 months ago

        I’m sorry but what? This is really weird logic as language and words aren’t required to follow some linear path of severity. People call the GOP, Trump and the like Nazis because… they fit the definition of Nazis, actual card carrying Nazis support them by a significant majority. (Yeah yeah I know there is the odd one here or there that doesn’t)

        If it walks like a Nazi, talks like a Nazi and engages in Nazi tactics, behaviors etc. Then it can be called a Nazi. You don’t reserve your language so that you have some end point to progress to.

        It’s also very weird to use the boy who cried wolf when the whole point of that story is that you don’t call something that which it isn’t for fear that when the real thing comes along no one will believe you as that would imply that they are in fact not Nazis. Which would only be true in the most technical of sense (As in they are not of the Nazi party of Germany) but by most dictionary definition the word fits.

        Lastly, what the hell are you even talking about “edgy”? Do you think people are calling them Nazis to be edgy? Because that’s ridiculous and quite frankly your entire comment screams of someone trying to defend them through deflection.

        • FMT99@lemmy.world
          0·
          3 months ago

          What’s more important, winning the fight over what label to put on those assholes or actually fighting what they do? It’s the same as people arguing about whether the Gaza situation is technically a genocide or not. Endless debate on the technicalities while nothing changes. Calling Trump and by extension all his followers “Nazis” just reinforces their belief that the “left” is their unrelenting enemy.

          • TGS@lemmy.ml
            0·
            3 months ago

            Why in your view is it mutually exclusive? To address any problem one first has to identify that there is in fact a problem. Calling it out where it exists IS that identification. It isn’t about “labels” it’s about identifying what needs to be dealt with and make no mistake there are a lot of people who don’t want to acknowledge the problem and if anything what you’re doing is exactly the shit the fascists do by forcing the side wanting to fight fascism to moderate its language on the belief that if we use that language against the fascists the fascists will dig into their fascism… as if they aren’t doing that anyway.

            In fact letting the right-wing control the narrative no matter what happens is in large part why we are where we are and why this shit needs to be called out, identified, labelled and opposed at every point with whatever means are necessary.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        3 months ago

        Gee. Which side has all the people marching with nazi flags?

        Which side never kicks them out when they do?

      • orcrist@lemm.ee
        0·
        3 months ago

        Now now. Many MAGA are in fact documented nazis, and Trump’s record is bad but it quite as explicit as that. If you’re afraid of the term being bandied about, I recommend therapy.